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Monday, November 13, 2006

Syntactic Vinegar vs. Syntactic Sugar

Syntactic vinegar is to punishing your dog for bad behavior as syntactic sugar is to rewarding them for good behavior.

I certainly don't want to be the dog being choked and scolded all day.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let it go. Like you said, it's been OVER A YEAR. You've twisted, distorted, and completely over exaggerated this topic quite enough. If you're going to stamp yourself as an "innovator" then innovate. Find ways to accomplish what you need despite your limitations and share it with the community. Worth is measured by contributions, not your ability to conjure complaints based completely outside reality.

3:49 PM, November 13, 2006

Blogger KirinDave said...

Devin... Devin, Devin, Devin.

Do you really think that it's just one person voicing this? Lucas is just saying what a lot of longtime rails users are feeling.

He came into the #caboose irc channel, which is home to nearly all of the longtime Rails users, and at least half of the core Rails team frequents it. The general attitude was an overwhelming agreement.

My hammer doesn't get an opinion, if it doesn't do what I want it to do then I find something else. Anyone is a modestly interesting Rails startup has to push Rails beyond its limits, and we're tired of being punished for this, then being put in double-jeopardy in trying to give our experiences back to the codebase.

3:55 PM, November 13, 2006

Blogger Lucas Carlson said...

Devin, that one example was from a year ago, the ideology behind that example is alive and well today. Not only I, but many others have experienced and continue to experience the exact same philosophy from Rails every day.

And who are you to tell me what to do and to judge my level of innovation, to judge my worth. Are you aware that I have contributed the Ruby Cookbook to the community as well as authored and contributed to more than 8 open source Ruby libraries including Rails plugins and Rails code itself. I have created dozens of sites in Rails, I have helped create Rails websites that have been sold to Google and shown off at conferences. I have spoken at conferences about Ruby, both from the beginner level and the advanced Ruby expert level. And I have done all this while being the head developer at a company that handles more than a million dynamic requests a day with Rails, having built it from the ground up.

If that is not enough reality to conjure complaints from, tell me what is.

4:04 PM, November 13, 2006

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for voicing your opinions on this.

I'm invested time to learn Rails, and it's good to know people are working to make the frame work robust and extensible.

I've been tossing between Django and Rails. Django sometimes seems to have (no a novice) have much more robust underpinnings. However I chose Rails because of it's active and vibrant community.

However, sometimes the Rails community can seem very commerical.

Example: "Here, let me help you, and by the way did you know I was writting a book?"

On the other hand, Django has a smaller community, but they appear to be less commercial and more geekily passionate for perfecting their framework.

For that reason I feel Django might overtake Rails, unless Rails can sharpen it's outlook.

I believe posts such as yours a necessary for this to happen.

Thank you again.

4:48 AM, November 17, 2006

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally agree. The idea of making something uglier to do seems like a bad idea. It's one thing to make what you think will be important easy, and another thing to make everything you don't think will be important difficult.

1:30 PM, November 17, 2006

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